Well, I guess when you overcome objections, you wear a big hat of sales, but you also wear the second big hat of human mentality versus human reality, almost like a psychologist. So I had a gentleman on the phone and he vented, and that's where my listening skills came in. He vented for 10 minutes. I don't know if it was a customer service or claims, agent not getting back to him. I didn't even want to ask him. I felt it would fight fire and fire. When he was done, I said to him, Mr. Smith, I'd like to thank you very much for sharing that with me. Why? Because that's going to help me to help you better, okay, that we're going to be doing this together. It's not a me against him kind of situation. And he was appreciative of that fact that I took the time to listen. And I went on and I got three sales and I got a referral from him and gave me another three sales. listening. Okay. The skill of listening, which is really almost unheard of today, unfortunately, a lot of order taker type.